NYCichlidForum.com

Chillout,

Dainichi primary krill
XL pro
Ultima
color supreme, or color FX
Veggie deluxe, or Veggie FX

IMO opinion, the best pellet's on the market. Give them a try, you won't be disappointed. Visit their site for more info, http://www.dainichi.com/

I've been in contact with Dainichi, and may stock a complete line of their cichlid pellet's. Anthony

I dunno Fisch, perhaps it's because NLS Wafers don't contain as much starch, or any dried bakery products, such as Hikari does? lol
http://www.hikariusa.com/sinking_wafers.htm
http://www.hikariusa.com/algae_wafers.htm

Dainichi ..... I honestly don't get what the cichlid circle interest is with this product?
The company & every product they make is based on Koi, and that's pretty much it, unless I'm missing something? It's not like they attempt to hide that fact. http://www.dainichi.com/ourhistory.html

If I want to feed my fish cookies and donuts then I will!

I guess, to each their own.

Just get any dried leftovers and put them in the grinder I've heard some fish eating dried and grinded bread

Well my fryeri and the few mbuna I had love the pellets from kens however my Fronts like flakes better. I am planning on adding some more Mbuna and a group of tropheus to my collection so I want to get the best stuff I can get. I am stuck on NLS still since that thread a month or so back with RD giving the facts . Can someone give me a link to where I can buy the NLS flakes and I will also pick up some of the NLS 1.0mm cichlid pellets from Ken. I may wait a little while before I buy the spirulina from Jehmco or the Dainichi since they are $50 a pop, and I don't have that many fish right now it would take me a year or more to go through 5lbs. But who knows maybe i will be adding more to my collection then i think since I found this site .

Also it seems to me that Dainichi is not just for Koi, Here there ingrdient list for their cichlid food. Only prob i have is the $50 for 5lb but hey you pay for quality right?

Cichlid Ultima - highest levels of spirulina encapsulation
contains: fish, shrimp, spirulina, krill, montmorillonite mineral rich supplement, garlic and added vitamins
min. protein 41%, min. fat 4%, max fiber 4%,
max moisture 9%, min. calcium 3%

Which ever food you choose Chillout, remember, it's alway's good to try different food's. Forget all the talk, and pay attention to which food's benefit your fish most. Their overall health, color, and feeding habit's are most important. This is what fish keeping is all about, experiment, and take notice which food's work best. As for overall nutrition, I spoke with two different rep's at Dianchi this afternoon, both said they'd be more than happy to go head to head with anyone on this board, or any other board, concerning the quality of their pellet, over any other pellet on the market. good luck with your choice Chillout ...

Chillout, to be honest, with the combination of foods that you are currently using adding a 'small' amount of NLS to the mix won't make a whole lot of difference one way or the other. By diluting the food by such an extreme you will also be diluting the end results.



I couldn't agree more.

One of the biggest problems is that the average hobbyist sees good color, and feels that this somehow equates to healthy fish. See the past "color" thread for why this is not always necessarily true. Overall health, of course that is very important as well. But what about the things that aren't so noticeable, such as the total digestibility of the food, or the excess waste that's created by these non-digestible ingredients?

Considering the costs of commercial foods, is this also not important to aquarists? Do you not care how much excess minerals are expelled into your tank water from your food? Would you not prefer to feed less, and have higher water quality between water changes? Does this not factor into the "overall health" equation?

Tropical fish food is not a whole lot different than dry dog food. There are manufacturers who use nothing but high quality highly digestible ingredients and spare no costs to formulate their feed, and there are those who cut costs wherever humanly possible, obviously so that they can increase their bottom line.

Grains are less costly than marine based ingredients such as krill, herring, mussel, squid, etc, and just as in dry dog foods the more grains, starches, and carbs that you pack into the food, the less costly the overall formula becomes.

Talk is cheap, show me the beef!

Does anyone here actually believe that feeding *dried bakery products* is in the best interest of their fish?

I didn't think so, yet Hikari will no doubt make millions this year, on just those two formulas alone.

This isn't rocket science here folks.


I have nothing against Dainichi, or the people paid by them to represent their company. Having said that, their own company history page is obviously talking about Koi, and Koi food. They even state that "fish have no stomachs", which is true with Koi, but certainly isn't true for the vast majority of other species of fish, including cichlids.

Personally I think I'll stick with a manufacturer that's been keeping & breeding African Cichlids (by the millions) for the past 30+ years, vs a company that was founded on keeping & breeding Koi.

RD, What's your thought on the NLS and Dianchi pellets ingredient comparison?

Chillout, you can purchase all this food @ Jehmco.

I think that it would very interesting, and possibly a learning experience, if a rep from Dainichi came on here and talked about their food.
Many of us use, and some of us swear by, NLS. I, like many others, have raised Tropheus successfully with NLS. I would love to hear from Dainichi about their food, and if they believe one, or more, of their foods can be the lone dietary need of African Cichlids, especially Tropheus.
For Zebra7 to be able to run his business, and successfully I might add, on Dainichi makes some of us think about trying out their product(s).

Stayed tuned.

I think that they best send more than just 2 reps.



Pablo's fish "business" involves approx 4 million gallons worth of tanks.


New Life maintains ...... 120 ponds (approximately 30,000 gal. each), 1500 concrete vats (250gal.-500gal. each) and 1,000 40 gal. fry tanks.

Need I say more?


Freshwater fish for the most part are a snap to keep alive, most of them will survive on even the lowest quality crapola out there. Some of the commercial farmers in Fl still feed trout chow in their ponds, and they too run a successful business. As far as that goes, some people feed their fish products that contain ingredients such as dried bakery products & they seem to be quite satisfied with the results.

How does one even begin to compare the amino acid content, digestibility, and overall quality between ingredients such as Whitefish meal, and South Antarctic Krill?
Or Herring with Shrimp Meal - that's comprised of heads & tails, not whole shrimp.
Or Soybean Meal, with Soybean Isolate?

Not to mention the large inclusion rate of Algae Meal in all NLS formulas - that's comprised of Seaweed, Kelp, and Haematococcus pluvialis? (a form of micro-algae)


Would someone from Dainichi dare to suggest that their ingredients are higher quality than the main ingredients found in NLS?

I think not.


Facts:

Whitefish meal is comprised of left over portions of fish after the fillet is removed
Herring is comprised of the whole fish

SA Krill costs far more than shrimp meal (approx 3 times as much)

Shrimp Meal is comprised of leftover portions - heads & shell
SA Krill is comprised of the whole krill

Wheat Germ is starch, and there is no need to add a massive amount of this raw ingredient in order to supply vitamin E or the B complex vitamins to a fishes diet

Soybean Isolate costs FAR more than Soybean meal, contains far less anti-nutritional factors such as saponins etc, compared to soybean meal, and SB Isolate has a much higher protein content, meaning that one can use far less, to achieve the same results.


Here's a read about the main ingredient used in the vast majority of NLS formulas, including the Cichlid formula.
http://www.aquafeed.com/article.php?id=439&sectionid=5


Can freshwater fish be successfully maintained on foods such as Dainichi? Of course they can, as they can on almost any tropical fish food currently on the market, but that doesn't mean that those foods will neccessarily be the "best", or provide optimum nutrition, no matter how good a company rep might be able to spin things.

As previously stated, for the most part freshwater fish are a snap to keep alive, and even on only so-so foods will show decent color (sometimes), breed, and live for several years. I suspect that most could be kept alive on nothing more than crumbled up supermarket dog chow.

But ..... try doing that with some of the more sensitive marine species, such as Rock Beauty, Moorish Idol and Achilles Tang. Most commercial foods won't even keep them alive, let alone thriving for several years or more.
The true acid test of any fish food is with some of these ultra sensitive marine species, not with fresh water fish.

Show me another manufacturer that has maintained some of the delicate marine species that Pablo has in his show tank (shown in the link below), some for over 10 yrs now, on an exclusive diet of their commercial 'dry pellet or flake' formula.
http://www.newlife.ipbhost.com/forums/i ... owtopic=66

I suspect that we will be waiting a very long time for another company to make a claim such as that.

The beauty of NLS is that you don't need to use it in conjunction with anything. NLS is a complete & fully balanced diet that contains a "wide variety" of high quality ingredients. While its main protein source is based on premium high quality marine proteins such as South Antarctic Krill and Herring, it also contains an ample amount of vegetable matter in the form of Seaweed, Kelp, Haematococcus pluvialis (a form of micro-algae) AND Spirulina.


I have no problem with anyone who wants to try Dainichi, or even feed Dainichi food exclusively, but seeing as the OP in this discussion was enquiring about NLS, I'm also more than happy to assist them in that regards.


HTH

Sorry I haven't been here most of the day, I usually have new fish delivered on Friday's, and it's a busy day. I knew my post would draw some steam from a certain party, I will make the call Monday morning to California, and speak with the people at Dianchi. I will have them read this thread, and tell them I would like responce's to all of RD's comment's concerning NLS pellet. They have already told me they are well aware of RD, and his crusade concerning the sale's of NLS pellet's. I myself will not get into a debate over these food's, RD is too good at it, and for me it's a waste of time. I believe only what I've learned in my past experience's keeping fish. I base my thought's strictly on experience, and don't have the time to spend my day typing. I'd rather spend my time in the fishroom taking care of my fish. The only reason I speak of Dianchi is because I'm happy with the result's it produced for me. I used NLS pellet for over a year, and was not impressed with it, just my Opinion. I'd rather see the rep's from Dianchi lay the fact's on the table for everyone to see. They are qualified to do battle with RD, there in the same business, selling fish food. If Dianchi want's me to sell their food, they'll have to make some of the people on this site believer's, until then. Anthony

Anthony - my "crusade" as the gents at Dainichi put it started long before I knew Pablo Tepoot, and long before I had any vested interest in NLS.

You state that these debates are a waste of your time, but I noticed that you certainly took the time to read this thread on NLS, and jump in with your 2 cents with regards to Dainichi. I have no problem with that, but if someone wants to do more than just talk the talk, then I'm more than happy to spend a few "minutes" of my day commenting on this subject.

The facts have already been laid on the table, let anyone come in & attempt to refute them, including reps from any fish food manufacturer.

Like I said RD, i'm not going to get into it with you. My comment's are nothing more that a paragraph or two, not a short story. I feel I'm obligated to give some input on SOME of the thread's, after all, I am a moderator. People who've been to my fish room from this board know my word carries weight , they see it in my fish, and in my tank's. Like I said, you can talk all day about this Monday with people who are good at it like yourself, until then.

I can dumb things down to a few short lines if that's what everyone would prefer, but from what I've seen over the past few years there's a lot of hobbyists that are interested in reading the fine details, not just ...... it is good, look at my fish.

I have no doubt that you have nice fish, I never implied that you didn't, but that has nothing to do with which food will provide more optimum nutrition, and/or which food is best, as you put it.

I thought that I made that crystal clear in my previous comment?


Can freshwater fish be successfully maintained on foods such as Dainichi? Of course they can, as they can on almost any tropical fish food currently on the market, but that doesn't mean that those foods will neccessarily be the "best", or provide optimum nutrition, no matter how good a company rep might be able to spin things.


By all means make the call & let the Dainichi reps come in here & inform everyone that everything that I posted thus far in this thread is just a bunch of hot air posted by a crusader.